Switzerland a double adg sword. Thank you Dr Cho Lucas Ayaba the man who saw tomorrow. Interview with Sylvain Thévoz: "Switzerland's credibility is at stake." WRITTEN BY: FRANZ 24. JULY 2021 New anti-Biya protests took place in Geneva. Cameroonians abroad have once again protested against the presence of their president in Switzerland, outside Cameroon. As in 2019, overflows were observed. Protesters made several attempts to break through the police cordon in front of the Intercontinental Hotel, where the presence of Paul Biya, 88, and President of Cameroon for 39 years, was reported.First authorized, then banned the day before, the demonstration still took place on Saturday. At the heart of the recriminations: Switzerland among others. The demonstrators accused the Swiss state of protecting "a dictator" who allegedly killed more than 3,000 members of the English-speaking minority in the North West and South West of Cameroon. We met Sylvain Thévoz with whom we spoke on this subject. Mr. Sylvain Thévoz (PS) is a member of the Grand Council of the canton of Geneva. There he agreed to answer questions from our editorial staff. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: Mr. Thévoz, on Saturday July 17, a new demonstration of Cameroonians took place in Geneva, all opposed to the presence of Mr. Paul Biya on Swiss soil. Did that surprise you? Sylvain Thévoz: No, that didn't surprise me at all. On the contrary. I think it is legitimate for Cameroonians to demonstrate when Paul Biya comes to spend the money of the Cameroonian people in Switzerland, but also in Europe, and everywhere in the world. There is something indecent, shocking that Mr. Paul Biya is a regular at the Intercontinental hotel with all the pomp he is used to and great opacity. You never know why he's coming, when he's leaving, how much time is left. So I understand perfectly well that there is a demonstration. It is completely legitimate in a democratic regime. It's even the least of things, I want to say. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: Would you have expected the federal authorities, in view of the events of 2019, to refuse him entry into Swiss territory? Sylvain Thévoz: No. I am not surprised that for the federal authorities the case of 2019 is "closed". In 2019, there were slippages, Paul Biya's bodyguards seriously molested a journalist. They were condemned by the Geneva courts, two years have passed and sadly, realpolitics is back. In the eyes of the federal authorities, Paul Biya is the elected president. Switzerland is playing its role of mediator in the conflict between the government of Paul Biya and the “Ambazonian” power in this conflict in western Cameroon. She is mandated to mediate in the context of this conflict. It is therefore understandable that the Swiss authorities do not want to offend Mr. Biya. The Swiss government is trying to maintain its good offices. But with the ban on demonstrations by opponents of Paul Biya on Saturday and the stalling of the mediation process, the Swiss government is failing doubly, both in its ability to guarantee its true neutrality and to establish its effectiveness. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: Let us stay a moment longer on the presence in itself of the Cameroonian president on Swiss soil. You say in this regard, that the decision of the federal authorities to allow Mr. Paul Biya to return to Swiss territory, is a decision of wisdom, a decision imposed by realpolitics, a completely logical decision. Sylvain Thévoz: No, no! I said I wasn't surprised. You asked me if I was surprised. So I said no. And I understand well the cards that the government plays according to its constraints. Now as a socialist deputy and as a militant, of course I find it shocking! It is shocking because Mr. Paul Biya comes to Switzerland, as he sees fit, to spend money that is not his; because he is someone who does not respect human rights, and does not respond in his governance to democratic principles. In my opinion, Switzerland, by virtue of its neutrality, should make Mr. Paul Biya understand, in view of the unrest of 2019, that he is not welcome in Geneva for his private visits and shopping, and that Switzerland may very well continue his mandate as mediator, must continue - I would say - this work of attempting to bring together the parties in conflict, but being much more firm in the face of Mr. Paul Biya to tell him that to come and play princes in Geneva in a luxury hotel is counterproductive in connection with these discussions and that is undesirable. In my opinion, the federal authorities have neither the courage nor the inclination to position themselves in this way. There is therefore an aplaventrism, of course, before the Cameroonian power, which harms Switzerland and its reputation for seriousness. Especially since we never really know what Mr. Paul Biya is doing in Geneva for private purposes. There are a lot of fantasies, rumors surrounding these trips and that is not healthy. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: Let us now leave the fact of the presence of Mr. Paul Biya, and talk about the demonstration of which this presence was the cause. During this demonstration, we were able to observe several scenes of violence. In one of your speeches , you accuse Mr. Paul Biya of being the "sower of trouble". Why him, and not the demonstrators? Sylvain Thévoz: I am referring to 2019. It was unacceptable to molest a journalist from Swiss radio and television, on the part of Mr. Biya's bodyguards. It should be remembered that Mr. Biya is protected as a personality by the Geneva police. When he comes to Geneva, it is with the knowledge of the authorities. It can very well be protected, protection is in place. Violence from anywhere is not acceptable, but it can be contained by an adequate police cordon. What I notice is that every time Mr. Paul Biya comes here, there are problems! I regret it. I do not support protesters who physically attack other people, or forcibly enter private spaces. But from what I have been able to observe, it is that there are demonstrators determined to speak out to Paul Biya in a terrible inequality in the balance of power. There is an all-powerful head of state, a potentate who comes to Geneva for a vacation. And in front of the demonstrators, people who have nothing other than their voice and their physical presence to show their disagreement. I cannot put the two on an equal footing. It is in this sense that I think Paul Biya is responsible for the troubles. And if he goes to a place and there are repeated tensions, he should refrain from coming back because he is obviously the trigger, and wondering about the cause of these disorders rather than wanting remove the effects. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: Who pays the bill for all the security deployment that is put in place when he is there? Who pays the bill after the excesses during the demonstrations of Cameroonians? Is it Mr. Paul Biya or is it the Geneva taxpayer? Sylvain Thévoz: It is obviously the Canton of Geneva, that is to say the taxes of the Genevans and Genevans. Mr. Paul Biya does not pay to my knowledge for any of this. He comes in his private capacity and is assured of police protection, whereas there are many other places in the city where police patrols are lacking and where security cannot be guaranteed due to the lack of personnel. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: After having authorized it, the cantonal authorities had finally banned the demonstration the day before, citing "a bundle of clues showing a concrete risk of overflow". You have, in another publication, criticized this decision, qualifying it as "blessed bread" for those who accuse Switzerland of playing a double game on the Cameroonian question. Who in the city or canton of Geneva has the authority to ban an event? In your opinion, was the ban inappropriate? Sylvain Thévoz: This ban was clearly excessive. The right to demonstrate is a fundamental, constitutional right. If there were threats, they emerge more from bravado than from a real risk that the Geneva police would not have been able to contain. We are talking about a police who managed the Biden-Putin summit. So two hundred demonstrators on the Place des Nations in Geneva… The police knew that the demonstration was going to take place on Saturday. She was prepared for it. She knew that by authorizing it there would have been neither more nor less overflow than what we had last Saturday by banning it, or even - I think - less tension. But for that it would have been necessary to be more in dialogue, in mediation, in understanding rather than in prohibition. This ban drastically increased the level of tension - Some people were amended, arrested on Friday, they were released on Saturday. It is as if we did everything on the side of Mr. Poggia who is the magistrate in charge of the police and took the decision to ban the demonstration, to raise the tension and somewhere to legitimize the violation of fundamental rights. to demonstrate. To come back to your first question, it is entirely up to the Geneva cantonal authorities to authorize or not a demonstration. The city has no say in authorizing or banning demonstrations. There was a notice from the police and, ultimately, State Councilor Mauro Poggia made the decision by endorsing the notice of his services. Was there any intervention by the Confederation? I have no idea, but I don't think so. Because in my opinion, it is not positive for the Confederation that this demonstration was banned. This gave the image of a country that would not be able to deal with possible excesses, and which would prevent people from demonstrating in the name of a potential threat. This weakened Switzerland's position in the mediation process, in its neutrality. Many people, following the ban on the demonstration, thought that Switzerland is not neutral, that it is playing Paul Biya's game, which we can only deplore. This has given rise to more fantasies and rumors, whereas in a democracy we have the right to clear and transparent communication. This is why I questioned the Geneva Council of State on this subject by sending it an urgent written question so that it could answer us in full transparency. It is important to know whether the Confederation was at least consulted before Mr Poggia decided to ban this demonstration. Because this decision has a direct impact on Switzerland's image and role. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: The decision to ban the demonstration was taken and communicated on Friday, so one day before it took place. An appeal seems to have been lodged with the administrative court. But he seems to have run out of time to rule on it in time. Do you think that all this was done on purpose by the cantonal authorities? Sylvain Thévoz: No. I really think the police and Mr. Poggia misjudged the potential threat from the protesters. Or because of the July holidays - they felt they did not have sufficient forces to deal with this possible threat. Which is astonishing for a police force which managed the summit in Geneva Biden-Poutine. More certainly, they wanted above all to avoid the damage to the image for Geneva, as we had been able to see it in 2019, with press articles that had gone as far as the New York Times, in the international press, where we saw cannons of the Geneva police spray the demonstrators. There was in this ban a desire to preserve the image of Geneva before maintaining democratic rights, the right to demonstrate. This is regrettable. Geneva hosted the Biden-Poutin summit. It still had to be able to contain 200 anti-Biya demonstrators. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: You are one of the public figures of the city of Geneva who worked in 2019 for the Cameroonian president to be declared "persona non grata" in Switzerland. You had also initiated a petition to this effect. Did you see all this trouble coming two years ago? New events are still being announced today. Sylvain Thévoz: Yes, of course. There is no doubt that the demonstrators are resolute. Each time Paul Biya returns, they will be there to demonstrate, to proclaim their feeling of injustice and the rejection of this character. This is why it is necessary to intervene on the causes of the problem and not its effects. The troublemaker is Paul Biya. He comes to Geneva on a private basis, on vacation, and his safety must be covered by the taxes of the inhabitants, and the image damage is for Geneva. This is not acceptable. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: In Cameroonian opinion, there are voices that maintain that as a man of the Left, you, Sylvain Thévoz, are only in your role; that your opposition to the presence of Paul Biya in Geneva, Switzerland, would thus only have an essentially ideological basis. You cannot have an objective judgment on this matter. Can you tell us, without qualms, without any prejudices, if you really saw this spiral of unrest coming around the presence of Paul Biya in Geneva? Sylvain Thévoz: Speaking with Cameroonians, Swiss people of Cameroonian origin, they are shocked by the fact that Paul Biya remains in power, with serious doubts about who really leads Cameroon, as well as about electoral process, on his fortune. They see this very old man arrive here, soon at the end of his life, who comes to spend the money that is not his. This is not acceptable, whether one is right or left does not matter in this finding. These are facts. You don't have to be Left or Right to find this shocking. Any human being can understand this anger, identify with the oppressed, repressed people in Cameroon and see the inequality behind it. It is not a fight for the Left, but for human rights. A fight for Geneva, which is a city, a canton that likes to claim its peaceful side, to remind people that it is the host city for the signing of the Geneva conventions, and in the service of multilateralism. But this role also implies an ethical position, fairness of treatment, and then somewhere an ability to indicate to people, to infrequent personalities, that they are not necessarily welcome, by strengthening somewhat this neutrality that does not want say complacency or collaboration. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: Are you angry today, disappointed that you weren't listened to in 2019? Sylvain Thévoz: I think I have been heard. I have received a lot of messages of support. The petition has given visibility to this fight and courage to many activists. I am neither angry nor disappointed because I am not naive about the existing balance of power, nor about the complacency of certain circles with the powerful, whether the latter have blood on their hands or not. But I am determined to continue this fight for the defense of human rights. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON* From the Right too, who in 2019 opposed your approach? Sylvain Thévoz: It's not a surprise, when we know that there are people who have little temper, for whom human rights will always come before business and business, and who are so legitimist that if Mr. Biya declares himself Head of State, they will bow down to him. I can hear the arguments of those who say “Geneva is a platform of multilateralism, it welcomes hundreds of heads of state every year, and there are many who are not frequentable. So why ban Biya, declare him 'persona non grata' and continue to welcome others? "We could be retorted:" But when there was the Poutine-Biden summit in Geneva, you didn't say anything, you didn't say that Putin must be declared 'persona non grata'. " I therefore understand very well the arguments of those who did not want to enter into the matter. For my part, I think that holding this position is destructive in the long term for Geneva. Because afterwards, it becomes much harder and more difficult to be proud of Geneva as a city of peace, as a city of discussion, as a multilateral city, ethical if people come, heads of state, not for discuss there, to do this diplomacy work, but really on vacation. It makes a difference. For the Biden-Putin summit, it was politics. They came, they left. If Mr. Poutine came for shopping and went boating on Lake Geneva, I think it would be legitimate to demonstrate, to denounce his presence and his policies. I am not angry, angry or disappointed. This is part of the balance of power and a real political debate. What happened last Saturday only shows that it's going to happen again and again. We must do a work of conviction, of protest, but with intelligence to try to convince in any case a majority of the Geneva population that Geneva is not a place that sells out or is given to the highest bidder. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: Are you going to start a new petition to have Paul Biya declared “persona non grata” in Geneva, Switzerland? Sylvain Thévoz: No, I don't think so. As it stands, given the balance of power in parliament, this petition would be treated in the same way as the previous one, it would be evacuated. If we have to come back with a parliamentary object at the Geneva level, we must find another angle of attack. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON*: What for example? *Sylvain Thév: I submitted an urgent written question. I await the responses of the Council of State concerning the ban on the demonstration. We need to better understand the issues concerning Paul Biya, the role of Switzerland especially in mediation. From there, you may need to drop other items. But above all, we must continue to demonstrate, write, speak, get together, to create a balance of power that is positive for us. All the means are good for that, at the parliamentary level as extra-parliamentary. MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: If Mr. Paul Biya were to stay in Switzerland for humanitarian reasons, to seek treatment for example, will you still oppose it? Sylvain Thévoz: What bothers me is the lack of transparency, it's opacity, the inability to have factual elements on this subject. This shadow theater does little for democracy. If he comes for humanitarian reasons, why hide him? MUNTUNEWS CAMEROON: "Swiss mediation gets bogged down in the face of conflict in the English-speaking regions of Cameroon" headlined the Swiss newspaper, Le Temps , in a July 4 publication. After having raised hopes, Switzerland would now be criticized, including by European diplomats in Yaoundé, we can read in this newspaper. Do you have an opinion on this question? Sylvain Thévoz: I think this mediation is complicated. I am missing some elements so that I can fully judge this one. The only thing I can say is that the action of the Geneva government and the ban on this demonstration made things more complex and difficult. Councilor of State Poggia made an error of assessment. It is now up to the Confederation to repair the broken pieces. Switzerland's credibility is at stake. The mediator finds himself exposed. It's never good. #freesoutherncameroons